Cleveland Sports Forum

Brooklyn better be careful. If Kyrie and KD sign with Knicks they may give away a talented young player to open up contract for nobody. Might want to make sure you have handshake agreement with someone first.

Kyrie is a given to Brooklyn. Changing agents settled that issue. RocNation is Jay Z. Jay Z is Brooklyn.

I saw something on TV where KD met Kyrie in NY and they are expecting to join up with Knicks. But that may be wishful thinking on the media’s part. Maybe it will be Brooklyn. I don’t care either way.

You might have seen this number floating around this season: The Celtics were 12-3 when Irving didn't play. In raw data, it's true, the Celtics have won more over the past two seasons without Irving than with him. They were 26-11 when he didn't play, a .704 win percentage, and 78-49 with him, a .614 win percentage. And, of course, they went to Game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals without him in 2018 and were knocked out in five games with four straight losses to the Milwaukee Bucks in the second round this year with him.

When Irving doesn't play, the Celtics are better on defense and Rozier's production blossoms. Some of the best games we've seen from Jayson Tatum are without Irving, too. So Irving bolts and everything should be just fine, right?

Eh. Despite all those numbers, Irving's value is unquestioned. They were way better on offense with Irving, and their net rating, which to some is the mother of all team stats, drops by more than half from plus-5.9 points per 100 possessions to just plus-2.7 points when he's not in the game.

Using Real Plus-Minus data, ESPN's Kevin Pelton estimates that if the Celtics brought back their entire roster minus Irving, they would have five fewer wins next season. That would mean a record of 44-38, which would've gotten them the No. 6 seed this past season. Not exciting.

But you can say this: They probably would be happier as a team without the Irving off-court drama and on-court ball domination. That reality doesn't always show up in the analytics but did show up in their record, and if you watched the Celtics when Irving was out, sometimes it felt like they were kids at recess.

But you can say this: They probably would be happier as a team without the Irving off-court drama and on-court ball domination. That reality doesn't always show up in the analytics but did show up in their record, and if you watched the Celtics when Irving was out, sometimes it felt like they were kids at recess.

As an NBA watcher with the NBA package, I did see this. I didn't see it last year.

But it seemed after the team made that run without him they weren't happy having to go back to their former roles. Especially since Kyrie is a scorer.

Really it was just a flukey kind of set of circumstances. Guys like Tatum, Brown and Rozier need room to grow and regressed last season. Clearly the young kids have egos that did not respond well to that.

Kyrie remains a crazy great talent - but that situation evolved into a no win. Be interesting to see where he ends up.

Rozier is from Youngstown . Which means I should like him but if you watched him on First Watch you know he acts like a spoiled brat. Hayward, Irving and HOSFORD were sort of isolated from the rest. Irving more than the others I assume because of Rozier.

Paul Crane
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@PaulCrane7
3h3 hours ago


Also told Reddish is target at 5 + team hoping Culver there at 8. @929TheGamePaul Crane added,
Paul Crane

@PaulCrane7

Being told ATL Hawks in deep talks w/ CLE sending 10 + 17 to CLE for 5. Also told deal could possibly expand to include Kevin Love, but not there yet. @929TheGame @MikeConti929

(Just a guess) but if Love is included in this deal then I would guess that the Pelicans are involved and that #4 is in play also. Would also be salaries from New Orleans going to Cleveland to balance out Love.

So it would look like Cavs trading #5 , Love and possibly JR Smith. Atlanta trading #10 and #17, (possibly Cavs first round pick for 2020 that Atlanta now owns). Pelicans trade #4 and matching salaries for Love.

Cavs get 4 , 10, 17 and matching salaries from Atlanta and New Orleans.

New Orleans get Love plus salary relief.

Atlanta gets #5 and salary relief.

Now this is all speculation but any part of this may happen.

So in that scenario the Cavs actually take (and keep) 3 rookies? What will be their average age? About the same as college seniors?

And....... they have a college head coach as coach and a female college head coach as an assistant.

Jonathan Givony
✔
@DraftExpress
Source: The Atlanta Hawks have been aggressive exploring trades packaging the No. 8 and 10 picks to move up in the draft. Their offer to the Knicks for the No. 3 pick was apparently rebuffed. The Pelicans are considering the possibility of trading the No. 4 pick for 8+10.

1,091
12:46 PM - Jun 18, 2019

.@WindhorstESPN on whether Love will be back with the Cavs next year: "He's been out there in some trade talks, but it's hard to find the right deal for him...I'd say it's 50/50."

Pelicans just acquired half the Lakers team. If I were them I wouldn’t trade 4 for two lesser 1st rounders. Depth is last thing they need now. Stay and try to hit at 4.

That’s what I hope Cavs do too. Wouldn’t shock me if they traded Love, but hope they don’t. And don’t trade 5 for couple lesser picks.

Take Reddish or Hunter, trade JR Smith’s contract for best you can get and let’s see what we get next year.

Keep hearing our old buddy Clark Kellogg in my ear, saying Reddish will be a better pro than college player.

Source: Knicks reject Hawks' offer for No. 3 pick
play

2:32 PM ET

The New York Knicks have declined a recent trade offer that would have sent the No. 3 overall draft pick to the Atlanta Hawks in exchange for the eighth and 10th picks, a source told ESPN's Jonathan Givony.

The Hawks have been aggressively exploring trade scenarios in which they would package the Nos. 8 and 10 picks to move up in Thursday's NBA draft, the source told Givony.

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But the Knicks were not interested in moving down to acquire Atlanta's picks, according to the source.

Although Duke's RJ Barrett has been projected as the No. 3 pick, New York plans to hold a workout Wednesday for Vanderbilt guard Darius Garland, according to Givony.

Garland recently told ESPN that he is the "best" guard in the draft; he has been widely viewed as a top-five pick. He was projected to go No. 5 overall to Cleveland in ESPN's latest mock draft, but Caesars Sportsbook currently lists Garland as a minus-170 favorite to be selected No. 4.

New Orleans is considering the possibility of trading the No. 4 pick to Atlanta for Nos. 8 and 10, the source told Givony.

ESPN reported Saturday that the Pelicans will acquire the fourth pick as part of the blockbuster trade that will send Anthony Davis to the Los Angeles Lakers.

Minnesota, Boston and Chicago are three more teams that are looking at the possibility of trading up to the No. 4 pick, with Garland in mind, according to Givony.

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@SteveBHoop
1h1 hour ago
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