Cleveland Sports Forum

The only question would be who is the better player ?

Clarkson, Hood, or Smith ? Whether it was based on right now or future I would not pick JR Smith !

JR punched his ticket out of town at the end of game 1 last year. One of the dumbest plays I ever saw. Right up there with Jim Marshall, Leon Lett, and Chris Webber.

I appreciated him during our good run, but got to go now.

rusty2 wrote:The only question would be who is the better player ?

Clarkson, Hood, or Smith ? Whether it was based on right now or future I would not pick JR Smith !

Certainly you can argue that case quite well. But the point is the Cavs clearly are not about winning games and they clearly want him gone.

I have to also wonder about some bitterness over extending that contract to him in the first place. Seems they really felt somewhat blackmailed (like Tristan Thompson) under the circumstances then to cave to demands. So now they hope to pressure him into settling for a buyout or (even better) finding a taker for him.

Kevin Love (toe) had surgery on his left toe and he will be re-evaluated in six weeks.

That means he won't be back until at least around Christmas, and the Cavs will likely be taking it easy on him once he's back. Love's toe is what has kept him out of the lineup lately, and perhaps the Cavs looking terrible this year was part of the decision to just have surgery

Perhaps?

Better to have the surgery, give him time to rehab and play (to showcase him) then deal him.

civ - they couldn't deal him anyways until the end of January - 6 months after the signing. Seems that timeline is right in sync there.

Zack Lowe is saying that front office people are telling him that the Cavs will have to attach an asset to Kevin Love to get rid of his 30 million contract.

I'm not sure I buy that and here is why:

That would mean this front office thought 100% that this team would contend this year. Even the most optimistic, and most uneducated fan would at least think that there was some chance this team would suck.

At the very least anyone can look at last time Lebron left, then look at when Lebron left Miami and they were then a lottery team.

Everyone covering baskeball, all executives and players knew the Cavs would suck without Lebron - being stuck with a team that was built around him (JR, Korver, overpaid TT etc).

So Koby Altman and Gilbert are not THAT stupid. They had to know this would very possibly happen.

Then why sign Love to a deal they can't get rid of?

I'm just saying. Doesn't seem to come close to adding up.

The Suns are in the process of buying out Tyson Chandler, according to Marc Stein of the New York Times.

Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.com adds Chandler is going to sign with the Lakers after he clears waivers. Chandler is from the Los Angeles area and the Lakers need some depth at center, so that could be a natural fit. We saw Richaun Holmes leapfrog Chandler last night, so this buyout talk makes a lot of sense.

See JR, you can do this. Agree to a buyout then pick your team. You will not be going to any soup kitchens. Look at least they were up front with him. He can choose to leave if he wants.

(PS - wish Chandler had done this last year so the Cavs could have added him. Needed a rim protector and big body.)

I understand your logic. Problem is that logic and Dan Gilbert have never met when it comes to the Cavs.

Let Griffin go. Fired Lue after 6 games after having the entire off season to think about it. GM tells Lue he wants younger assistant coaches which leads to a law suit. Tells Smith he is out of rotation. Last night he is back in. Which makes 4 different directions in 10 games or less.

The Cavs would like to get to dysfunctional.

Great post rusty - and here is more along those same lines:

Kyle Korver - G/F - Cavaliers

According to The Athletic's Joe Vardon, Kyle Korver and Cavaliers GM Koby Altman had agreement upon his re-signing that the team would either buy him out or trade him if LeBron James signed elsewhere.

As we all know, LeBron did indeed sign elsewhere. When LeBron made his decision, Korver asked Altman for a resolution so he could move his family over the summer, but the team refused because they wanted to play him and compete. The report also says that the same basic message was communicated to the rest of the team's veterans, too.

With recent reports of the team shopping Korver and the Cavs off to a 1-8 start, a resolution may soon be upon us.

Come on, that is pathetic.

So regarding my above post, the answer is YES Dan Gilbert is stupid enough to think they were competing this year.

And YES Dan Gilbert is stupid enough to re-sign Kevin Love to a contract that they then will have problems getting rid of now that they aren't competing.



SAD

One more additional observation by myself, this one very subjective.

I remember watching one of the games, can't remember which, and some interviews afterwards.

I distinctly got the impression whoever they were got great satisfaction beating the crap out of the Cavs (now that Lebron is gone). Payback!

It's like "you guys are toast now that your big brother ain't here to cover your asses". Wouldn't surprise me if that makes this team's job that much harder until the guys on last year's team are dispersed off the team.

And wouldn't surprise me if those Miami Heat teams took the same abuse after Lebron left. "Let's see what you guys got NOW!"

Teams dishing out their best efforts against a crap team in effect. And in addition the lottery teams smell a win too!

Recipe for increasing the disaster.

This is the article that much of the new info came from:

Things are even worse on the Cavaliers than they seem, from the top to the rookie: Final Thoughts


By Joe Vardon Nov 3, 2018 23

CHARLOTTE,​ N.C. —​ If you want to​ know just how​ bad things are​ with​ the Cavaliers,​ these Final​​ Thoughts from their 126-94 loss to Charlotte Saturday should do the trick.

JR Smith was told at least twice this season by Cavs GM Koby Altman that he was out of the rotation and would have minimal opportunity to play. And both times, the same week, whoever was coaching this team put Smith back in there.

On Saturday, Smith played 24 minutes and led the Cavs with 14 points. A few days ago, Altman gave him the option to take paid leave because he wouldn’t be playing and the team was rebuilding. “As far as I’m concerned, given what our circumstances are, JR, he’s a member of our team, and if I need him I’m going to call on him,” interim coach Larry Drew said.

This is not about the tactical decision to play Smith or David Nwaba, who is the odd man out when Smith plays. In a 32-point loss, one rotation player isn’t going to make a difference. In a season that’s nine games old, and in eight of them the Cavs have trailed by at least 16 points, playing JR or not playing him is of no consequence. Nor is this a time to talk numbers and statistics, period. The Cavs’ issues are systemic.

It’s about an organization with confused priorities coming from the top, the growing entitlement of the team’s youngest player, there being no head coach, the lone All-Star likely out for multiple months and most of the team’s veterans expecting to be traded. It’s about a proud franchise which lost the game’s best player to free agency again, had hopes and dreams of surviving the first season without him, and is watching it all crash on its head.

To be fair to Altman, even before LeBron James left for the Lakers, the Cavs’ GM said the team was getting into the “player development business.” It meant the Cavs were always going to devote resources and playing time to Collin Sexton, Cedi Osman, et al. But when James left, not only did Altman, and then-coach Tyronn Lue, and other Cavs executives behind the scenes all say they intended to stay competitive this season, that’s what they told their returning veterans.

The first player Altman ever signed to a contract as GM was Kyle Korver. It was a three-year, $22 million deal inked in July of 2017, but it came with an understanding: If LeBron were to leave, the Cavs would either trade Korver or buy him out of the deal so he could move his family to his next team during the summer. So when LeBron left July 1 for the Lakers, Korver asked for the Cavs to move him. They refused because, they told him, they wanted him to play and for the team to try and win. To be fair, in the event of a Korver trade they would want maximum value in return, like a first-round pick. Anyway, the same basic message of competing now was communicated to Kevin Love before he agreed to a four-year, $120 million extension and to rest of the returning players.

Also, to be fair to Altman, he told Smith’s camp over the summer that playing time for him would be sparce. Smith suffered through his two worst seasons as a pro, had that Game 1 Finals blunder in June, and the Cavs felt his spot was one they could fill with the younger players they brought in. The problem was, Lue wanted to play Smith, in part because he’s partial to veterans and also because he felt the other vets on the team would be discouraged if too much time was distributed to newer, younger players who had not earned it.

You already know this, but after two games — both losses — Altman and Lue sat Korver, Smith and Channing Frye and told them all they wouldn’t be playing. They said the team was going younger. And then after an embarrassing loss to the Hawks in the home opener, Lue showed up at the next practice and put Korver and Smith on the court, without bothering to run it by anyone. Altman and Co. allowed it, though, because they wanted to give their coach room to work. The Cavs were no better in the next three games, fell to 0-6, and looked mostly awful. So Altman fired Lue.

Drew is under contract as the team’s “associate head coach.” He’ll be paid about $1 million. He was given that title and money in case the Cavs needed to rely on him like this. And, as I said Friday, they offered him a modest pay raise after firing Lue. But Drew refused it, seeking additional years on his contract and for his assistants, too. The Cavs didn’t budge, and so he took it public. He’s backed off in recent days and has said he’s committed to this team and this job. Here’s the problem, though. The players back Drew. They think he needs a new deal, and because he doesn’t have one they feel there’s a power vacuum at the position. Here’s how.

In on the record commentary, time and again, veterans like Tristan Thompson have made clear there is a divide between the Cavs’ holdover vets from the LeBron glory years — like him, Smith, Frye, and Korver (Tristan didn’t mention Love, who’s gone from the team after foot surgery) — and the team’s mostly unnamed younger players. In the meantime, they’re getting their asses kicked as a team almost every night.

“Team is in a very weird place right now and we have to figure it out, whether it’s a players-only meeting or coaches or front office meeting or whatever it is, we have to figure it out and let everyone know what their individual role is and what to expect,” Smith said. Except, the veterans do not expect Drew to do this because, while they respect him greatly, they don’t think he’s the head coach because of his contract situation.

It’s becoming increasingly clear that when you hear a Cavs veteran talk about younger players not knowing their role, or knowing how to win, or what to do on the court, they mean Sexton. Throughout the organization, the line on Sexton is that he does not “know how to play.” He doesn’t know how to defend the pick and roll. He doesn’t know how to set up teammates as a point guard. He’s playing 25 minutes a night, averaging 11.1 points and 2.2 assists (2.1 turnovers) and is shooting 22 percent from 3-point range. Against the Hornets, he had as many points (four) as fouls. He had no chance against Tony Parker.

At one point during Saturday’s game, veteran starting point guard George Hill told Sexton he’d teach him how to play defense. Only, there is little confidence in the locker room that Sexton will listen to him. Remember when I wrote during the preseason that the Cavs’ players loved Sexton? Well, that was true then. And they don’t think he’s like a bad guy now. They know he’s 19 and he only played one year of college ball. They still think he’s a nice kid. But they see his deficiencies, they know he’s going to be on the court, and they’re discouraged when after these losses, he doesn’t seem bothered by them.

It should also be pointed out that Sexton has never experienced dysfunction quite like Cavs dysfunction. As you all know, when there’s a spark in the Cavs’ locker room, the whole thing is torched to the ground within minutes. Sexton’s never seen losing like this. His coach, Lue, who Sexton’s family was close to before he even went to play in college at Alabama, was fired after six games. And, again, Sexton’s 19. He knows there’s all kinds of things he doesn’t know. Also, it’s not his fault the Cavs drafted him eighth overall. And he has the full support of owner Dan Gilbert, who wants Sexton on the court. Like most of the veterans on this team, Sexton knows he has staying power in this organization — not them. Who could blame him for keeping his head down and smiling while he takes his lumps on a team that’s going to look vastly different by the time he’s ready to be a real NBA point guard?

I wrote at the outset of this season that the Cavs had no chance without a healthy Love and an improved Hood. Love is going to be out at least two months, if not more. Hood’s averaging 12.6 points and 2.8 rebounds. He’s shooting 42 percent from the field. He has not nearly been the player the Cavs need, save for the night he scored 26 in Cleveland’s lone win.

“Listen it’s going to come down to the veterans at the end of the day,” Thompson said. “When I say ‘veterans’ for this ball club it’s only the guys, I hate to keep reiterating it, but only the guys who have been here long enough. So, me, Swish (Smith), Channing, you know, Kyle. That’s the voice of the locker room because we know what we’re talking about and our resume shows it. We have the results to back it up.” Not this year, they don’t.

There’s the rub. Love’s body failed him and the Cavs. And no veteran has done enough to give this team a chance to win. Altman wanted to win this season, before it started. His intentions were in the right place. “Tanking” — the word fantasy-basketball fans love to use, is no fun. Altman began to worry that winning might not be possible before the games got under way. He fired Lue because the Cavs were simply not competitive. Drew exploited him this week. Then Love had surgery. And the team remains a country mile from being competitive. The reality is this season might turn out to be as bad as it looks right now, and Altman’s best hope is for Sexton to improve, for the team to get a top-3 draft pick, and for Love to return healthy next year. It’s a quick path back to respectability.

This is incredible. Thompson was comparing the current Cavs — who we were told would compete for the playoffs — with the Cavs iteration from his rookie year, when they were awful and tanking for picks. He said that team rarely was beaten as badly as the Cavs now. “That’s what we’re trying to instill in these guys,” Thompson said. “It’s not a thing to get beat by 30, no matter if you guys are second-year players, third-year players or guys that are trying to figure out this NBA game. You’ve got to compete every night. That’s non-negotiable. And if you’re not going to compete you’ve got to sit down.”

The NBA requires five players to be on the court at all times. So, bad news, Tristan. In this case, everything may be negotiable. Talk to you Monday from Orlando.

This is where you need a Bill Fitch type of coach that will be the face and pulse of the organization until it is ready to compete.

Sort of a Terry Francona type manager with good assistants.

Once again similar to the Browns we are seeing an owner that wants to play GM or coach and hires a guy that will allow him to do that.