Cleveland Sports Forum

Thanks TFIR. This is much more useful than having to wade through long articles on basketball sites or forums. I'll drop by here for my expert advice. My son used to be my go-to-guy for the Cavs and the NBA but after they won their one title he was fully satisfied and has retired as a Cavs fan.

Thanks civ - I am a former high school basketball referee and I still ref 7-9 grade games. In other words I have a large passion for all things basketball (pro).

Like your son I will surely be watching less Cavs this year but I love good NBA stories and Blake Griffin/Detroit is one of those. Hence I will be riveted to the Pistons/Celtics tonight - should be a good one. I'm still interested in how this plays out for the Cavs though and will continue to check in.

rusty - listening to David Griffin on Sirius NBA channel. Love(d) that guy - what do you think, in retrospect, was the reason he left?

Maybe he saw the post Lebron era coming and wanted to get paid? Or too much control? Or a personal thing with Gilbert?

Gilbert forced Griffin out. Gilbert never talked to him about an extension. Gilbert feels it was his purse strings and not Griffin's ability. Griffin got too much credit and Gilbert did not like it. Griffin did not want to leave. According to everyone that is in the know that Gilbert is a tyrant to work for.

Cleveland Cavaliers: Why are they having so many problems? -- Terry Pluto
Updated 8:03 AM; Posted 8:00 AM

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer terrypluto2003@yahoo.com

ABOUT TYRONN LUE

When you have LeBron James, coaching is hard...and easy.

Hard because of the "title or nothing" expectations. Hard because James is the sun in this basketball universe. It all revolves around him: front office, coaching staff and teammates. That's also because he generates so much light and energy.

Eight straight trips to the NBA Finals demonstrates his value.

Coaching James is easy in that you are coaching one of the NBA's greatest closers. It's easy because James can create a shot whenever a play falls apart. It's easy because having James means you'll win far more games than you'll lose.

It was only in his rookie season of 2003-04 that James had a losing record in the NBA.

It was that same season where the Cavs started 0-5. The same has happened to the team this season.

Tyronn Lue is having his first exposure to the reality faced by most NBA head coaches. No superstar. Suddenly the coach can look very overmatched.

Fair or not, that has been the case with Lue early this season.

"Our room for error is so slim right now," Lue told the media after the Cavs lost 110-103 in Detroit Thursday.

It probably was their best game of the season. Kevin Love (foot injury) was out. The Pistons are off to a strong start with big men Blake Griffin and Andre Drummond presenting huge challenges for any team.


"When we're supposed to box out, then box out," said Lue. "When we're supposed to switch, then switch."

Lue wants to switch nearly every time on defense. It's what a lot of NBA teams are doing right now. But it also creates some poor matchups for Cavs defenders.

Lue always wanted to coach a team similar to this, a team he could "teach and mold." He has said that several times, even when James was with the Cavs.

NEW WORLD ORDER

For Lue, it's welcome to the new world order of a post-LeBron universe.

He has been pushing his team "to play with pace," meaning play fast. That is the direction of the modern NBA.

Run up the court and fire up 3-pointers.

Maybe the Cavs will be able to play his hyper-speed style, but I have major doubts. They lack the overall athleticism.

This is not a plea to go back to 80-point games of the 1990s. But it is begging for some common sense in terms of pace.

Too many guys just sprint down the court and unload shots with little thought given to...

I can't finish the sentence because I don't know what they are thinking at times.

It's early in the season This story is being written after five games. Lots of time for things to change.

The Cavs ranked No. 9 in pace heading into their loss at Detroit. It has dropped after that, I'm sure. Lue wants to play faster.


Is that really a great idea?

Here is how the Cavs ranked in pace the previous four years with James, based on ESPN's Hollinger Rating:

2017-18: 12th.

2016-17: 16th.

2015-16: 28th.

2014-15: 25th.

Trying to play faster has not helped the shooting: .440 from the field (No. 22) and .324 on 3-pointers (No. 24).

They are being outscored by 13 points a game, most in the NBA.

It seems the rushed shots on offense have led to confusion on defense -- and easy shots for opponents. You saw that in the first home games, blowouts by Brooklyn and Atlanta.

WHY NOT THIS?

1. I'm old school and old in general, so maybe this view should simply be dismissed -- like someone advocating for a return to the 2-handed set shot. But there are times when I'd like to see them slow it down, running plays where the ball and people move.

2. There are ways to create open shots besides the "drive-and-kick" method so loved by today's NBA. There has to be more to offense than a player driving to the rim while his teammates spread out on the 3-point arch - awaiting a pass.

3. The Cavs are not a wildly athletic team. Of course, you want rookie Collin Sexton to bolt down the court and score. And you want Kevin Love to fire a long outlet pass to someone open down the court.


4. But discretion is advised. Pick your spots. Run some plays. Don't keep the ball on one side of the court for most of a possession.

5. Basic stuff, but it's often missing.

ABOUT THE CAVS

1. The best player after five game is Jordan Clarkson. He's a relentless shooter and scorer. He is one of the few Cavaliers who can consistently create his own shot off the dribble. He's averaging 17 points and shooting 51 percent heading into the weekend. He's only 26. He fits on the team.

2. Larry Nance also is 26. He recently signed a 4-year extension, meaning he's under contract for five seasons. The Revere High product is unselfish. He is an excellent passer, hustles on defense. In 22 minutes a game, he's averaging 8.0 points, 5.3 rebounds and 4.3 assists.

3. I'm starting with Nance and Clarkson because they arrived in Cleveland via last season's February trade with the Lakers. They are two valuable role players who can help the Cavs as they try to find a identity.

4. I don't know how J.R. Smith fits on the team. He's 32. He's not played well the last two seasons. He's scored seven points in 42 minutes, shooting 3-of-13 from the field. With nearly $19 million left on his contract, good luck trading him. Lue did praise Smith's defense in the loss to the Pistons.


5. Rodney Hood has been an early-season disappointment. He's averaging 11.0 points, shooting only .386 from the field. He is 1-of-9 on 3-pointers. He is 10-of-10 from the free throw line. He needs to be more aggressive, looking to drive and score.

6. I give credit to Tristan Thompson, who is averaging 10.8 rebounds in 28 minutes a game. He's scoring 7.5 points and is one of the few Cavs making an effort on defense.

7. Kevin Love is putting up numbers: 19.0 points, 13.5 rebounds and 3.5 assists. But he's shooting only .323 (.292 on 3-pointers) from the field. Defenses are swarming him. The Cavs also don't seem to be putting him in good spots to score on the court. My plea for a more structured offense would help him.

8. I can't explain this. Point guards George Hill and Collin Sexton are playing a combined 50 minutes a game. They play together a few minutes each game. But back to their 50 minutes on the court...they are combining for only 3.8 assists!

9. In this offense, the point guards don't set up the other players. The leading assist man is Nance (4.3) followed by small forward Cedi Osman (3.8). It's just very strange early in the season.

10. Sexton is off to a promising start. The 19-year-old rookie is averaging 10.3 points, shooting .457 from the field. His speed is eye-popping. He can score on driving layups with either hand. Sexton had only four assists in the first four games, then had five vs. the Pistons. That's progress. Lue on Sexton: "He's a scoring point guard, but we want him to grow into an all-around (point guard)."

Thanks rusty. Too bad on Griff - he is such a positive energy guy...I don't doubt he was a great buffer between Gilbert and the team. And he just loves the game and all aspects of it.

Lue won't be able to do much molding here. George Hill, Korver, TT, JR, Kevin Love and Channing Frye. That's a lot of very veteran guys who far past the molding stage. More like concrete. And except for Frye they are rotation guys!

So he has a weird mix of really young guys and way past their prime guys and perhaps Love just leaving his prime and he took a lot of pounding in the last 4 years of extended playoff runs!

Dekker was a nice pickup but just solid. Would like to see Zizic get some run...hard to know what we have there but TT basically blocks him. Crazy.

Lue's nightmare. Hired to be fired but unlike many at least he got a championship!

It seems they did the right thing. Told the veterans they would sit. Lose big and embarrassing and they change course.

Sounds like the owner got involved which is his right.

really young guys

But when I looked at the roster I saw lots of guys around 25 or 26 which is almost mid career now, isn't it? Looks like a long road back unless they get lucky with the draft lottery a few more times.

civ ollilavad wrote:

really young guys

But when I looked at the roster I saw lots of guys around 25 or 26 which is almost mid career now, isn't it? Looks like a long road back unless they get lucky with the draft lottery a few more times.

Yes, for example I gave Clarkson the benefit of the doubt and called him a "young guy". Actually he has been around quite a few years now and what you see at this point is likely what you get.

What he is is a gifted scorer and little else. That's fine depending on the team and if that role fits what you need.

On a related note George Hill is not a pass first point guard and he is an old guy. Not changing. Sexton, as written above, they are hoping he develops the passing area of his game but it is not yet what he does. Clarkson never met a shot he didn't like so no passing there. JR? So their guards are not guys who "make their teammates better".

No matter how you slice it it's an unlikely mishmash mix of guys post Lebron. Understandable but it is what it is and no spin will make this team much of anything except a temporary inconvenience while they wait for contracts to expire and hope to get a top lottery pick.

Larry Nance double-doubled for the first time this season, scoring 15 points (6-of-8 FGs, 3-of-3 FTs) with 12 rebounds, four assists and one steal in 23 minutes vs. the Pacers on Saturday.

That's a season-high in points and rebounds and he's now played 20+ minutes in three straight. Kevin Love (foot) is already banged, the Cavs are winless and have very little talent, so all signs point to Nance becoming one of Cleveland's top assets going forward. He should have some starts coming his way.

The Cleveland Cavaliers are planning to fire head coach Ty Lue, per league sources. @TheAthleticNBA @WatchStadium

11:06 AM - Oct 28, 2018

TFIR wrote:
Lue's nightmare. Hired to be fired but unlike many at least he got a championship!

OK I am good...but didn't expect it this quickly!

In all fairness, Lue was hired to coach a veteran team - he managed the complex relationships on a talented team well enough to manage a championship.

Since they are obviously going to dump veterans (overdue) and go back to scratch they need to hire a coach for that kind of thing (see Celtics, Boston.....and then Stevens, Brad). Or see 76ers....Brett Brown. Etc. Etc as guys who were brought in to teach young guys and bring them along.

Drew will be the interim evidently, but he also does not fit the role. This is more a signal sent out for a change of direction. Drew mans the ship while they search for someone..maybe even a college coach.

I hope Gilbert didn't dump on Lue - this is not of Lue's making. He will land on his feet as an assistant somewhere.

Sources told ESPN's Brian Windhorst that Lue recently had a disagreement with general manager Altman over playing veterans. Altman preferred that Kyle Korver and JR Smith be taken out of the rotation to give time to younger players. After one game in which they didn't play, Lue put both back in the rotation without consulting Altman.

Owner Gilbert has also encouraged more playing time for rookie Collin Sexton, sources told Windhorst. Sexton is averaging just 23.5 minutes per game.

Lue is still owed roughly $15 million on the contract he signed in 2016 after the team won the title, sources said.

My son the fan asks about Billy Preston, who I gather was pretty good in college at Kansas, but seems to just be a 15th man for the Cavs. Any expert commentary on him?

Here's what I found:

When the Cavs signed Billy Preston for Las Vegas Summer League, and shortly after, to a two-way contract, it was an exciting proposition. Preston went undrafted in the 2018 NBA Draft, despite being the 18th-ranked prospect in the 2017 recruiting class. Now, players disappoint from high school recruiting rankings all the time, but Preston’s performance wasn’t why he wasn’t drafted. A suspension from Kansas related to college basketball’s FBI probe, and a shoulder injury suffered while playing in Bosnia in the winter, are what held Preston back. So, it stands to reason that Preston probably isn’t just your run-of-the-mill two-way player.

Preston hinted at some of that potential in Summer League. He didn’t shoot well (few actually do), but held his own on the glass as a 6-10 power forward, and played actively on defense. He looked like strong weapon in transition, and hinted at some of the ball-handling ability that made him an enticing player at Oak Hill Academy.

However, there’s still a long road ahead from looking enticing at summer league and actually being a reliable rotation player. As fun as it is to envision the Cavs essentially getting a free development year with Preston, and then signing him to a cheap deal as he blossoms into a productive player, there are holes in Preston’s game that might limit his chances to be productive at the next level, and that the Cavs and Canton Charge will have to help him work through.

Chief among those issues is his shooting, which has not been a promising trait throughout his career. One of Preston’s valuable traits could be his ability to put the ball on the deck in isolations, and that threat is going to need to be supplemented by a jumper that creates space for him off the dribble and allows him to act as a pick-and-pop threat. He did hit 5-of-13 from three at LVSL, which is 38.5 percent. That’s a good development, but also a very small sample size, and his shot form is going to need some improvement to allow him to become an average three-point shooter

Kevin Love could miss more than month with toe injury
8:51 AM ET
Brian WindhorstAdrian Wojnarowski

The Cleveland Cavaliers are preparing for the strong possibility that five-time All-Star forward Kevin Love could miss more than a month with a left toe injury, league sources told ESPN.


The Cavaliers and Love are consulting with doctors early this week to consider the limited short-term solutions available, but intense pain and the combination of an 0-6 start make it less logical for Love to push through the injury.

Rest would be the solution for the toe injury, which has persisted since the preseason for Love.

Love signed a new four-year, $120 million contract this summer.

The loss of Love, 30, could send the Cavaliers into an even deeper spiral, leaving them without the team's most reliable offensive player.

Love, averaging 19 points and 13.5 rebounds, has missed the Cavaliers' past two losses. The injury appears to have impacted his performance, which has included 32 percent shooting and 29 percent on 3-pointers.

Cleveland fired coach Ty Lue on Sunday, replacing him on an interim basis with assistant Larry Drew.

rusty2 wrote:
Lue is still owed roughly $15 million on the contract he signed in 2016 after the team won the title, sources said.

They did Lue a favor!

Look, it's time to let Sexton just play. Just let Clarkson start and play. More minutes for Nance. Etc Etc

If the vets don't like it let them report to Gilbert's office. If Gilbert is willing to pay them anyways, just suspend them if necessary.

Of course, more likely (and Gilbert probably hopes this) they will negotiate a buyout.

But yes let the kids play unlimited at this point. They started the season trying to win, now Love is likely out long term so the charade is over.