There are no pitchers who excite me. Could try one of the high round picks last summer, inlcuding MItch Brown, Lovegrove, Baker. If you want to choose someone who will move up quickly more likely with a reliever. Trey Haley is probably too far advanced to be breakout pick anymore, but I think he could reach Cleveland in 2013. Araujo or Sterling could bounce back. And who was that big kid throwing in Arizona last summer? Luis Lugo 6-5 200 pound lefty, fanned 51 in 42 innings. 18 year old.
I think I'll add Lugo as my pitcher to Santander as my position players. They will be my teenage picks and I will allow myself an older pair, too, although there are few who are impressive. I can always return to Gio Urshela and scan the Mudcats' bullpen.
Re: Minor Matters
2297BA posts its Indians Top 10 list Tuesday and then will offer up to a couple of hours of Indians-only prospect chat. If anyone wants to try a hand at your own Top 10 before BA posts, this weekend is the time to do it.
Any BA subscriber can join the chat. Any non-BA subscriber can offer questions to me to pose; I cannot guarantee a reply. No Toru Murata questions please. But I'm happy to ask about Jose Ramirez and projections for which infielders are more likely to wind up as outfielders.
Any BA subscriber can join the chat. Any non-BA subscriber can offer questions to me to pose; I cannot guarantee a reply. No Toru Murata questions please. But I'm happy to ask about Jose Ramirez and projections for which infielders are more likely to wind up as outfielders.
Re: Minor Matters
22982013 IPI Positional Rankings: The First Basemen
Jesus Aguilar (Photo: Lianna Holub)
By Tony Lastoria
November 8, 2012
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Today we unveil the beginning of our 2013 prospect coverage here at the IPI with the first rankings piece of the Indians system.
While the overall rankings countdown will not begin on the site until after the first of the year, I felt a new and fresh idea would be to breakdown each position and rank the prospects accordingly at each position and provide some insight on each player.
It goes without saying that first base is the organization’s biggest weakness on the position player front from the big leagues down to rookie ball. It was hoped that when the Indians acquired Matt LaPorta from the Brewers in 2008, or when the Indians drafted Beau Mills in 2007, that the future at first base would be set by now. But both players did not live up to those hopes as LaPorta is on his way out and Mills was traded to the Reds last summer.
The Indians currently have no long term solution to their first base need at the big league level, and few if any options exist in the minors. This is an area where they will continue to invest in the position on a short term basis via stop gap options in free agency and the trade market. As far as a long term solution goes, that is something they will need to address either by acquiring a big time prospect in a trade or investing in one through the draft with a high round pick.
Each Thursday through the end of the year I will be posting these positional rankings, and will pretty much talk about every Indians prospect that played stateside somewhere last season. For these pieces I have broken up the players into groups to give an idea of their value and where they will rank. This is not a typical one through ten or whatever ranking, but instead a grouping of like players where under each group the players are listed alphabetically. Much more detailed write-ups will be provided for each player in their 2013 scouting reports that begin posting in January.
Today, we kick things off with a look at the first basemen.
Top Prospect
Jesus Aguilar
Vitals: Age: 22 – Height: 6’3” – Weight: 257 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 Stats: 127 G, .280 AVG, 75 R, 31 2B, 2 3B, 15 HR, 71 RBI, 58 BB, 115 K, .833 OPS
Aguilar is without question the best first base prospect in the organization; however, it does not mean he is destined for stardom or a good Major League prospect. He has intriguing power and made some good strides this past season with his defense at first base showing improved footwork and more consistency overall. The Indians feel he can be at least an average defender at first base and with the power from the right side he provides a potential solution in the near future to their first base woes in the big leagues. Two things that are a concern are that for a player his size and with all that power he plays small as his power numbers should be better, though it is a byproduct of such a strong focus on his other concern: his plate discipline. His patience is improving year by year, but he needs more development with his pitch recognition skills and lying off breaking stuff low and way. He should open the 2013 season at Double-A Akron, and if the plate discipline continues to improve and his power spikes, he could find his way at Triple-A Columbus by midseason and be an option for the Indians by the end of the season as a late season callup. He probably won’t be a big impact Major Leaguer, but could maybe be a Gaby Sanchez type of player.
On-deck
Lars Anderson
Vitals: Age: 25 – Height: 6’4” – Weight: 215 – Bats: Left – Throws: Left
2012 Stats: 111 G, .250 AVG, 53 R, 27 2B, 2 3B, 9 HR, 59 RBI, 65 BB, 107 K, .750 OPS
The Indians acquired Anderson from the Red Sox for righty Steven Wright at the end of July, and is an attempt by them to buy low on a once promising prospect in the hopes a change of scenery energizes him. He has good size with good hand-eye coordination and an advanced approach at the plate which helps him limit strikeouts and pile up walks, but his bat has been inconsistent because he does not consistently make hard contact. He does not hit for much power, which is often a death sentence at first base unless a player is an elite defender, which he is not since he is just an average defender. He is a depth option for the Indians and with a remaining option provides them roster flexibility next season to platoon him with someone at first base in the big leagues, or simply just stash him away at Triple-A Columbus.
Russ Canzler
Vitals: Age: 26 – Height: 6’2” – Weight: 220 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 MiLB Stats: 130 G, .265 AVG, 68 R, 36 2B, 3 3B, 22 HR, 79 RBI, 46 BB, 128 K, .815 OPS
2012 MLB Stats: 26 G, .269 AVG, 9 R, 3 2B, 0 3B, 3 HR, 11 RBI, 4 BB, 22 K, .697 OPS
Canzler does not really have a home defensively as he is actually more of a designated hitter type because of his below average defense at first base and left field, but the one position he has the most experience and fits in best at is first base. He has a very simple swing with a short approach to the ball, and his professionalism as a player and the ability to hit with some power are his two best traits. The biggest drawback with him has always been how he lacks much patience and has not shown an ability to consistently stay in the zone since he often expands the zone and chases pitches. For this reason alone, he will be a depth option for the Indians in 2013 and could potentially be a platoon option in left field or first base off the bench.
Chun Chen
Vitals: Age: 24 – Height: 5’11” – Weight: 210 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 Stats: 108 G, .308 AVG, 62 R, 30 2B, 1 3B, 5 HR, 43 RBI, 56 BB, 101 K, 6 SB, .820 OPS
Chen moved from catcher to first base this past season because of concerns with his defensive abilities behind the plate. The move to first base was a successful one as he adapted well showing soft hands and some athleticism, though he is still picking up all the nuances to the position and getting his footwork down. The Indians feel he could become an average defender there and even has a shot of being a plus defender. At the plate he puts up consistent at bats and really uses the middle of the field well, has a quick, professional swing with good doubles pop, and has good bat-to-ball ability. However, as a first baseman, he is kind of lost in the mix because he lacks much power. He will probably go to Triple-A Columbus next season and his ceiling as a big leaguer may be that of a Ryan Garko-type player.
Up and comer
Nelson Rodriguez
Vitals: Age: 18 – Height: 6’2” – Weight: 225 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 Stats: 32 G, .229 AVG, 19 R, 7 2B, 3 3B, 4 HR, 17 RBI, 24 BB, 41 K, .834 OPS
Rodriguez reminds me a lot of Jesus Aguilar when he was first coming up in the system a few years ago as a big player with intimidating size, lots of raw power, and advanced approach at the plate. He’s not yet a high-end prospect, but if his power and patience combo develops as hoped over the next one to two years, he could be one of the best power prospects the Indians have had in a long time. The Indians say they are committed to developing Rodriguez as a catcher, but he mostly played first base this season at rookie-level Arizona and also in Instructional League. His size and power will likely eventually push him to first base full time and even if he catches next year he will play a lot of first base, so for that reason he is being ranked as a first baseman and not a catcher. He will probably open next season in extended spring training before being assigned to an affiliate later in the year.
Organizational Soldiers
Adam Abraham
Vitals: Age: 25 – Height: 6’0” – Weight: 228 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 Stats: 108 G, 63 R, 28 2B, 1 3B, 13 HR, 54 RBI, 44 BB, 80 K, 2 SB, .783 OPS
Abraham is a guy that has mostly played third base in his five year career with the Indians, but is starting to play more and more first base each season. He can also catch if needed, and that versatility to play a few positions and his professionalism and work ethic are big reasons why he will continue to stick around in the Indians organization for a while. He has a mature, disciplined approach at the plate that he continues to refine and improve each season, and also has a line drive swing with some solid-average power where he can consistently put up 15-20 homers a season if given regular playing time. He may only end up as a depth option at Double-A or Triple-A, but he is a lot like former Indians’ corner utility player Jerad Head and could someday get a cup of coffee in the big leagues and continue to have a long career as a player that bounces around between the big leagues and Triple-A.
Jerrud Sabourin
Vitals: Age: 23 – Height: 6’2” – Weight: 210 – Bats: Left – Throws: Left
2012 Stats: 130 G, .297 AVG, 60 R, 26 2B, 2 3B, 3 HR, 66 RBI, 51 BB, 77 K, 4 SB, .748 OPS
Sabourin had one of the better out of nowhere performances this past season, and really shined as a leader in what was an extremely young infield at Low-A Lake County. He has a good swing with solid hitting skills and is an above defender at first base with good instincts and footwork around the bag, but with below average power and a more advanced age at 23-years old he kind of is what he is as a prospect. That said, the Indians have few first base options in the lower levels, and his defense to go along with his high character has really solidified himself as a player that could remain in the organization for a while.
Filling in
Evan Frazar
Vitals: Age: 21 – Height: 6’0” – Weight: 185 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 Stats: 38 G, .256 AVG, 11 R, 4 2B, 0 3B, 2 HR, 16 RBI, 8 BB, 36 K, 2 SB, .643 OPS
Frazar is more of a corner utility player as he has primarily split time at first base and third base in his short two-year career with the Indians. This past season at short season Single-A Mahoning Valley he mostly played first base, and it is a position he could find himself continuing to get most of his playing time at Low-A Lake County next season. He is an average defender with a good arm, solid hands and strong footwork. His approach at the plate as a hitter is inconsistent and needs work, but he has some bat speed and shows flashes of some solid power. His versatility defensively and his grinder mentality help his value, and could help keep him around another year in the organization filling in where needed.
Follow Tony and the Indians Prospect Insider on Twitter @TonyIPI. Also, his new book the 2012 Cleveland Indians Prospect Insider which profiles the Indians' Top 100 Prospects and more is available for sale.
Jesus Aguilar (Photo: Lianna Holub)
By Tony Lastoria
November 8, 2012
ShareThis
Today we unveil the beginning of our 2013 prospect coverage here at the IPI with the first rankings piece of the Indians system.
While the overall rankings countdown will not begin on the site until after the first of the year, I felt a new and fresh idea would be to breakdown each position and rank the prospects accordingly at each position and provide some insight on each player.
It goes without saying that first base is the organization’s biggest weakness on the position player front from the big leagues down to rookie ball. It was hoped that when the Indians acquired Matt LaPorta from the Brewers in 2008, or when the Indians drafted Beau Mills in 2007, that the future at first base would be set by now. But both players did not live up to those hopes as LaPorta is on his way out and Mills was traded to the Reds last summer.
The Indians currently have no long term solution to their first base need at the big league level, and few if any options exist in the minors. This is an area where they will continue to invest in the position on a short term basis via stop gap options in free agency and the trade market. As far as a long term solution goes, that is something they will need to address either by acquiring a big time prospect in a trade or investing in one through the draft with a high round pick.
Each Thursday through the end of the year I will be posting these positional rankings, and will pretty much talk about every Indians prospect that played stateside somewhere last season. For these pieces I have broken up the players into groups to give an idea of their value and where they will rank. This is not a typical one through ten or whatever ranking, but instead a grouping of like players where under each group the players are listed alphabetically. Much more detailed write-ups will be provided for each player in their 2013 scouting reports that begin posting in January.
Today, we kick things off with a look at the first basemen.
Top Prospect
Jesus Aguilar
Vitals: Age: 22 – Height: 6’3” – Weight: 257 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 Stats: 127 G, .280 AVG, 75 R, 31 2B, 2 3B, 15 HR, 71 RBI, 58 BB, 115 K, .833 OPS
Aguilar is without question the best first base prospect in the organization; however, it does not mean he is destined for stardom or a good Major League prospect. He has intriguing power and made some good strides this past season with his defense at first base showing improved footwork and more consistency overall. The Indians feel he can be at least an average defender at first base and with the power from the right side he provides a potential solution in the near future to their first base woes in the big leagues. Two things that are a concern are that for a player his size and with all that power he plays small as his power numbers should be better, though it is a byproduct of such a strong focus on his other concern: his plate discipline. His patience is improving year by year, but he needs more development with his pitch recognition skills and lying off breaking stuff low and way. He should open the 2013 season at Double-A Akron, and if the plate discipline continues to improve and his power spikes, he could find his way at Triple-A Columbus by midseason and be an option for the Indians by the end of the season as a late season callup. He probably won’t be a big impact Major Leaguer, but could maybe be a Gaby Sanchez type of player.
On-deck
Lars Anderson
Vitals: Age: 25 – Height: 6’4” – Weight: 215 – Bats: Left – Throws: Left
2012 Stats: 111 G, .250 AVG, 53 R, 27 2B, 2 3B, 9 HR, 59 RBI, 65 BB, 107 K, .750 OPS
The Indians acquired Anderson from the Red Sox for righty Steven Wright at the end of July, and is an attempt by them to buy low on a once promising prospect in the hopes a change of scenery energizes him. He has good size with good hand-eye coordination and an advanced approach at the plate which helps him limit strikeouts and pile up walks, but his bat has been inconsistent because he does not consistently make hard contact. He does not hit for much power, which is often a death sentence at first base unless a player is an elite defender, which he is not since he is just an average defender. He is a depth option for the Indians and with a remaining option provides them roster flexibility next season to platoon him with someone at first base in the big leagues, or simply just stash him away at Triple-A Columbus.
Russ Canzler
Vitals: Age: 26 – Height: 6’2” – Weight: 220 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 MiLB Stats: 130 G, .265 AVG, 68 R, 36 2B, 3 3B, 22 HR, 79 RBI, 46 BB, 128 K, .815 OPS
2012 MLB Stats: 26 G, .269 AVG, 9 R, 3 2B, 0 3B, 3 HR, 11 RBI, 4 BB, 22 K, .697 OPS
Canzler does not really have a home defensively as he is actually more of a designated hitter type because of his below average defense at first base and left field, but the one position he has the most experience and fits in best at is first base. He has a very simple swing with a short approach to the ball, and his professionalism as a player and the ability to hit with some power are his two best traits. The biggest drawback with him has always been how he lacks much patience and has not shown an ability to consistently stay in the zone since he often expands the zone and chases pitches. For this reason alone, he will be a depth option for the Indians in 2013 and could potentially be a platoon option in left field or first base off the bench.
Chun Chen
Vitals: Age: 24 – Height: 5’11” – Weight: 210 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 Stats: 108 G, .308 AVG, 62 R, 30 2B, 1 3B, 5 HR, 43 RBI, 56 BB, 101 K, 6 SB, .820 OPS
Chen moved from catcher to first base this past season because of concerns with his defensive abilities behind the plate. The move to first base was a successful one as he adapted well showing soft hands and some athleticism, though he is still picking up all the nuances to the position and getting his footwork down. The Indians feel he could become an average defender there and even has a shot of being a plus defender. At the plate he puts up consistent at bats and really uses the middle of the field well, has a quick, professional swing with good doubles pop, and has good bat-to-ball ability. However, as a first baseman, he is kind of lost in the mix because he lacks much power. He will probably go to Triple-A Columbus next season and his ceiling as a big leaguer may be that of a Ryan Garko-type player.
Up and comer
Nelson Rodriguez
Vitals: Age: 18 – Height: 6’2” – Weight: 225 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 Stats: 32 G, .229 AVG, 19 R, 7 2B, 3 3B, 4 HR, 17 RBI, 24 BB, 41 K, .834 OPS
Rodriguez reminds me a lot of Jesus Aguilar when he was first coming up in the system a few years ago as a big player with intimidating size, lots of raw power, and advanced approach at the plate. He’s not yet a high-end prospect, but if his power and patience combo develops as hoped over the next one to two years, he could be one of the best power prospects the Indians have had in a long time. The Indians say they are committed to developing Rodriguez as a catcher, but he mostly played first base this season at rookie-level Arizona and also in Instructional League. His size and power will likely eventually push him to first base full time and even if he catches next year he will play a lot of first base, so for that reason he is being ranked as a first baseman and not a catcher. He will probably open next season in extended spring training before being assigned to an affiliate later in the year.
Organizational Soldiers
Adam Abraham
Vitals: Age: 25 – Height: 6’0” – Weight: 228 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 Stats: 108 G, 63 R, 28 2B, 1 3B, 13 HR, 54 RBI, 44 BB, 80 K, 2 SB, .783 OPS
Abraham is a guy that has mostly played third base in his five year career with the Indians, but is starting to play more and more first base each season. He can also catch if needed, and that versatility to play a few positions and his professionalism and work ethic are big reasons why he will continue to stick around in the Indians organization for a while. He has a mature, disciplined approach at the plate that he continues to refine and improve each season, and also has a line drive swing with some solid-average power where he can consistently put up 15-20 homers a season if given regular playing time. He may only end up as a depth option at Double-A or Triple-A, but he is a lot like former Indians’ corner utility player Jerad Head and could someday get a cup of coffee in the big leagues and continue to have a long career as a player that bounces around between the big leagues and Triple-A.
Jerrud Sabourin
Vitals: Age: 23 – Height: 6’2” – Weight: 210 – Bats: Left – Throws: Left
2012 Stats: 130 G, .297 AVG, 60 R, 26 2B, 2 3B, 3 HR, 66 RBI, 51 BB, 77 K, 4 SB, .748 OPS
Sabourin had one of the better out of nowhere performances this past season, and really shined as a leader in what was an extremely young infield at Low-A Lake County. He has a good swing with solid hitting skills and is an above defender at first base with good instincts and footwork around the bag, but with below average power and a more advanced age at 23-years old he kind of is what he is as a prospect. That said, the Indians have few first base options in the lower levels, and his defense to go along with his high character has really solidified himself as a player that could remain in the organization for a while.
Filling in
Evan Frazar
Vitals: Age: 21 – Height: 6’0” – Weight: 185 – Bats: Right – Throws: Right
2012 Stats: 38 G, .256 AVG, 11 R, 4 2B, 0 3B, 2 HR, 16 RBI, 8 BB, 36 K, 2 SB, .643 OPS
Frazar is more of a corner utility player as he has primarily split time at first base and third base in his short two-year career with the Indians. This past season at short season Single-A Mahoning Valley he mostly played first base, and it is a position he could find himself continuing to get most of his playing time at Low-A Lake County next season. He is an average defender with a good arm, solid hands and strong footwork. His approach at the plate as a hitter is inconsistent and needs work, but he has some bat speed and shows flashes of some solid power. His versatility defensively and his grinder mentality help his value, and could help keep him around another year in the organization filling in where needed.
Follow Tony and the Indians Prospect Insider on Twitter @TonyIPI. Also, his new book the 2012 Cleveland Indians Prospect Insider which profiles the Indians' Top 100 Prospects and more is available for sale.
Re: Minor Matters
2299I certainly agree with Tony that 1st base remains a great void for the Tribe. Historically many 1Bs are former other position players so perhaps we have a future 1b in someone like Paulino or R.Rodriguez. But I would hope both of those kids wind up at more skill-oriented positions.
Re: Minor Matters
2300Alex Monsalve was a house afire last week in Arizona, then didn't play again the last few games. He started the fall:
22-2-3-2 no xb hits, 1 walk 4 k
And then followed up with a period of:
17-4-11-4 4 doubles 1 walk, 4k
22-2-3-2 no xb hits, 1 walk 4 k
And then followed up with a period of:
17-4-11-4 4 doubles 1 walk, 4k
Re: Minor Matters
2301Here's the BA Top 10 list for the Tribe. The first 2 spots are the given, the rest are very speculative.
1. Francisco Lindor, ss Great D, good offense
2. Dorssys Paulino, ss Super U.S. debut
3. Tyler Naquin, of don't bet on him
4. Cody Allen, rhp he's already a major leaguer
5. Mitch Brown, rhp last year Dillon Howard was #2 and he stunk in '12
6. Danny Salazar, rhp the only starter who actually pitched well in 2012
7. Luigi Rodriguez, of might be a CF prospect
8. Ronny Rodriguez, ss/2b too many K
9. Jesus Aguilar, 1b didn't hit many homers in 2012
10. Chen Lee, rhp on DL all year
1. Francisco Lindor, ss Great D, good offense
2. Dorssys Paulino, ss Super U.S. debut
3. Tyler Naquin, of don't bet on him
4. Cody Allen, rhp he's already a major leaguer
5. Mitch Brown, rhp last year Dillon Howard was #2 and he stunk in '12
6. Danny Salazar, rhp the only starter who actually pitched well in 2012
7. Luigi Rodriguez, of might be a CF prospect
8. Ronny Rodriguez, ss/2b too many K
9. Jesus Aguilar, 1b didn't hit many homers in 2012
10. Chen Lee, rhp on DL all year
Re: Minor Matters
2302Best Hitter for Average Dorssys Paulino
Best Power Hitter Jesus Aguilar
Best Strike Zone Discipline Francisco Lindor
Fastest Baserunner Luigi Rodriguez
Best Athlete D'vone McClure
Best Fastball Trey Haley
Best Curveball Cody Allen
Best Slider Shawn Armstrong
Best Changeup Danny Salazar
Best Control T.J. McFarland
Best Defensive Catcher Roberto Perez
Best Defensive Infielder Francisco Lindor
Best Infield Arm Giovanny Urshela
Best Defensive OF Tyler Holt
Best Outfield Arm Tyler Naquin
Best Power Hitter Jesus Aguilar
Best Strike Zone Discipline Francisco Lindor
Fastest Baserunner Luigi Rodriguez
Best Athlete D'vone McClure
Best Fastball Trey Haley
Best Curveball Cody Allen
Best Slider Shawn Armstrong
Best Changeup Danny Salazar
Best Control T.J. McFarland
Best Defensive Catcher Roberto Perez
Best Defensive Infielder Francisco Lindor
Best Infield Arm Giovanny Urshela
Best Defensive OF Tyler Holt
Best Outfield Arm Tyler Naquin
Re: Minor Matters
2303PROJECTED 2016
This always assumes we don't trade anyone we have now, which of course if unlikely
LINEUP
Catcher Carlos Santana
First Base Lonnie Chisenhall
Second Base Asdrubal Cabrera
Third Base Dorssys Paulino
Shortstop Francisco Lindor
Left Field Jason Kipnis
Center Field Michael Brantley
Right Field Tyler Naquin
Designated Hitter Shin-Soo Choo
No. 1 Starter Justin Masterson
No. 2 Starter Carlos Carrasco
No. 3 Starter Ubaldo Jimenez
No. 4 Starter Zach McAllister
No. 5 Starter Mitch Brown
Closer Cody Allen
Pretty bad looking rotation. Lineup wouldn't be bad if they were all still here, which they won't be.
This always assumes we don't trade anyone we have now, which of course if unlikely
LINEUP
Catcher Carlos Santana
First Base Lonnie Chisenhall
Second Base Asdrubal Cabrera
Third Base Dorssys Paulino
Shortstop Francisco Lindor
Left Field Jason Kipnis
Center Field Michael Brantley
Right Field Tyler Naquin
Designated Hitter Shin-Soo Choo
No. 1 Starter Justin Masterson
No. 2 Starter Carlos Carrasco
No. 3 Starter Ubaldo Jimenez
No. 4 Starter Zach McAllister
No. 5 Starter Mitch Brown
Closer Cody Allen
Pretty bad looking rotation. Lineup wouldn't be bad if they were all still here, which they won't be.
Re: Minor Matters
2304Cleveland Indians
As their 68-94 season drew to a close, the Indians fired manager Manny Acta, then quickly replaced him with former Red Sox skipper Terry Francona.
While Francona puts a fresh face in the dugout, there's little Acta could have done given the players at his disposal. Cleveland ranked 22nd in baseball in runs scored, but the pitching was worse as only the Rockies allowed more runs.
The Indians have struggled to add talent in recent years, most notably through the market for amateur players. While Jason Kipnis has proven to be an excellent use of a second-round pick in 2009, the draft continues to be an area that has provided little help.
Vinnie Pestano (20th round, 2006) and Tony Sipp (45th round, 2004) have been useful relievers and Cody Allen (23rd round, 2011) made a rapid rise to join them in the big league bullpen, but years of missing on first-round picks and getting little from the later rounds have hampered Cleveland. Further development from 2008 first-rounder Lonnie Chisenhall would represent a major draft breakthrough, but he has hit .260/.295/.421 and played substandard defense in the majors the last two years.
The international market also has been a dry spot. Former Latin American director Rene Gayo (now with the Pirates) helped the team add Roberto Hernandez, Victor Martinez and Jhonny Peralta, among others. The Indians' more recent forays into international waters have yet to deliver any impact players.
Other than Hernandez and Rafael Perez, the only other international free agent Cleveland signed and had on its 2012 team was nondescript Jeanmar Gomez. The Indians hope that Chen Lee perhaps can offer some relief help in 2013 after losing 2012 to Tommy John surgery.
Former GM and current club president Mark Shapiro helped build his reputation on trades that landed such players as Asdrubal Cabrera, Shin-Soo Choo, Travis Hafner, Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, Carlos Santana and Grady Sizemore. But Shapiro received little in return when he traded C.C. Sabathia in 2008 and Lee in 2009, a major reason why the team hasn't had a winning season since blowing a 3-1 lead in the 2007 American League Championship Series. Matt LaPorta, the centerpiece of the Sabathia trade, has been a bust, though Michael Brantley did emerge as a solid regular in 2012. Carlos Carrasco, who missed 2012 after Tommy John surgery. is the last hope to salvage much value from the Lee deal.
Making the opposite move, trading prospects in exchange for a supposed ace, also has turned sour. With the Indians contending in mid-2011, GM Chris Antonetti traded his two best young arms to the Rockies as part of a four-player package for Ubaldo Jimenez. Neither Drew Pomeranz and Alex White has done much in Colorado yet, but Jimenez has gone 13-21, 5.32 in 42 starts for Cleveland.
The Indians did get value when they traded Austin Kearns in 2010, getting Zach McAllister from the Yankees. He had a 4.24 ERA in 22 major league starts in 2012.
If the Indians are counting on help from the minors, impact talent is still at least a couple of years away. Francisco Lindor is a potential all-star and fellow shortstop Dorssys Paulino may be the best international player they've signed since Peralta in 1999. But neither has played above low Class A, nor has 2012 first-rounder Tyler Naquin, and beyond them the system is thin.
As their 68-94 season drew to a close, the Indians fired manager Manny Acta, then quickly replaced him with former Red Sox skipper Terry Francona.
While Francona puts a fresh face in the dugout, there's little Acta could have done given the players at his disposal. Cleveland ranked 22nd in baseball in runs scored, but the pitching was worse as only the Rockies allowed more runs.
The Indians have struggled to add talent in recent years, most notably through the market for amateur players. While Jason Kipnis has proven to be an excellent use of a second-round pick in 2009, the draft continues to be an area that has provided little help.
Vinnie Pestano (20th round, 2006) and Tony Sipp (45th round, 2004) have been useful relievers and Cody Allen (23rd round, 2011) made a rapid rise to join them in the big league bullpen, but years of missing on first-round picks and getting little from the later rounds have hampered Cleveland. Further development from 2008 first-rounder Lonnie Chisenhall would represent a major draft breakthrough, but he has hit .260/.295/.421 and played substandard defense in the majors the last two years.
The international market also has been a dry spot. Former Latin American director Rene Gayo (now with the Pirates) helped the team add Roberto Hernandez, Victor Martinez and Jhonny Peralta, among others. The Indians' more recent forays into international waters have yet to deliver any impact players.
Other than Hernandez and Rafael Perez, the only other international free agent Cleveland signed and had on its 2012 team was nondescript Jeanmar Gomez. The Indians hope that Chen Lee perhaps can offer some relief help in 2013 after losing 2012 to Tommy John surgery.
Former GM and current club president Mark Shapiro helped build his reputation on trades that landed such players as Asdrubal Cabrera, Shin-Soo Choo, Travis Hafner, Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, Carlos Santana and Grady Sizemore. But Shapiro received little in return when he traded C.C. Sabathia in 2008 and Lee in 2009, a major reason why the team hasn't had a winning season since blowing a 3-1 lead in the 2007 American League Championship Series. Matt LaPorta, the centerpiece of the Sabathia trade, has been a bust, though Michael Brantley did emerge as a solid regular in 2012. Carlos Carrasco, who missed 2012 after Tommy John surgery. is the last hope to salvage much value from the Lee deal.
Making the opposite move, trading prospects in exchange for a supposed ace, also has turned sour. With the Indians contending in mid-2011, GM Chris Antonetti traded his two best young arms to the Rockies as part of a four-player package for Ubaldo Jimenez. Neither Drew Pomeranz and Alex White has done much in Colorado yet, but Jimenez has gone 13-21, 5.32 in 42 starts for Cleveland.
The Indians did get value when they traded Austin Kearns in 2010, getting Zach McAllister from the Yankees. He had a 4.24 ERA in 22 major league starts in 2012.
If the Indians are counting on help from the minors, impact talent is still at least a couple of years away. Francisco Lindor is a potential all-star and fellow shortstop Dorssys Paulino may be the best international player they've signed since Peralta in 1999. But neither has played above low Class A, nor has 2012 first-rounder Tyler Naquin, and beyond them the system is thin.
Re: Minor Matters
2305Despite the incredibly thin quality of this system, I posted about a dozen questions to Ben Badler who is hosting the BA chat this afternoon. But he has made it clear in his writeup above that besides Lindor and Paulino and maybe Naquin everyone else in this system is a longshot.
Last spring BA gave each prospect on their 30-deep lists a rating on the 20-80 scale used to judge baseball talent. A grand total of 2 Indians received scores over 50, while the Royals netted 16. And one of our two was Dillon Howard, who in typical top draft pick style was really awful in 2012.
It remains amazing that the same guys keep their jobs in the Indians' drafting and development departments.
With an unwillingness to spend money for Free agents or to retain our own talent, and what was rated the 29th of 30 farm systems in 2012 and could have hit rock bottom by now, the Indians have no prospect whatsoever if being remotely competitive regardless of the quality and experience of their manager.
Last spring BA gave each prospect on their 30-deep lists a rating on the 20-80 scale used to judge baseball talent. A grand total of 2 Indians received scores over 50, while the Royals netted 16. And one of our two was Dillon Howard, who in typical top draft pick style was really awful in 2012.
It remains amazing that the same guys keep their jobs in the Indians' drafting and development departments.
With an unwillingness to spend money for Free agents or to retain our own talent, and what was rated the 29th of 30 farm systems in 2012 and could have hit rock bottom by now, the Indians have no prospect whatsoever if being remotely competitive regardless of the quality and experience of their manager.
Re: Minor Matters
2306eith (Manchester, CT): Thanks Ben. Just how high is Dorssys Paulino's offensive ceiling, and does your gut tell you he eventually moves to 2B or to 3B?
Ben Badler: It's a potentially elite bat, someone who should hit either at the top or the middle of the lineup. The question is the power ceiling, but there really aren't any major red flags with him offensively, other than him just being so young and far away from the big leagues. All the ingredients you want to see in a young hitter, be it bat speed, swing path, pitch recognition, strike-zone discipline, that's all there. I'd be shocked if he stays at shortstop though. I'd probably lean toward him moving to third base, but that's probably going to depend on how his body develops or possibly what the Indians need more by the time he gets to the upper levels. But yeah, I'm a huge Dorssys Paulino fan.
Ben Badler: It's a potentially elite bat, someone who should hit either at the top or the middle of the lineup. The question is the power ceiling, but there really aren't any major red flags with him offensively, other than him just being so young and far away from the big leagues. All the ingredients you want to see in a young hitter, be it bat speed, swing path, pitch recognition, strike-zone discipline, that's all there. I'd be shocked if he stays at shortstop though. I'd probably lean toward him moving to third base, but that's probably going to depend on how his body develops or possibly what the Indians need more by the time he gets to the upper levels. But yeah, I'm a huge Dorssys Paulino fan.
Re: Minor Matters
2307Jaypers413 (IL): Can you give us the skinny on Dillon Howard's struggles in the AZL? Are you optimistic about him? Finally, did he place in the 11-20 range?
Ben Badler: He came into spring training out of shape and just wasn't prepared to handle what was ahead of him. Then he had some knee and elbow issues that didn't help, his velocity dipped into the 80s and the sinker stopped sinking. Obviously you can see the results of that formula from what happened to him this season. I can't say I'm optimistic about him, but I wouldn't write him off just based on this year, even if his stock dropped like a ton of bricks.
KID SIGNS BIG BONUS DEAL AND DOESN'T COME IN SHAPE TO HIS FIRST SPRING TRAINING. BETTER SCOUTING COULD HAVE PREDICTED THAT IRRESPONSIBLITY I IMAGINE.
Ben Badler: He came into spring training out of shape and just wasn't prepared to handle what was ahead of him. Then he had some knee and elbow issues that didn't help, his velocity dipped into the 80s and the sinker stopped sinking. Obviously you can see the results of that formula from what happened to him this season. I can't say I'm optimistic about him, but I wouldn't write him off just based on this year, even if his stock dropped like a ton of bricks.
KID SIGNS BIG BONUS DEAL AND DOESN'T COME IN SHAPE TO HIS FIRST SPRING TRAINING. BETTER SCOUTING COULD HAVE PREDICTED THAT IRRESPONSIBLITY I IMAGINE.
Re: Minor Matters
2308Ben (Leland Grove): Are Lindor and Paulino the only guys likely to make the top 100, or does Naquin have a shot as well? I'm assuming Allen won't.
Ben Badler: Those are the only guys I'd rank in the Top 100. Naquin has a chance to be there next year and I do like Allen as a quality arm at the back of the bullpen who has a chance to be a closer, but Lindor and Paulino are the only Top 100 guys for me
Ben Badler: Those are the only guys I'd rank in the Top 100. Naquin has a chance to be there next year and I do like Allen as a quality arm at the back of the bullpen who has a chance to be a closer, but Lindor and Paulino are the only Top 100 guys for me
Re: Minor Matters
2309Elliot (Youngstown OH): Last season the Indians had two players rated at least “55” while the Royals had 16. How many Tribe prospects this year will be 55 or above? I'm guessing 3 at most.
Ben Badler: Wow, I hadn't gone back and tracked the data like that from last year's BA Grades, but that sounds about right. They'll have more than two guys with 55s or better realistic ceiling grades, but I think you're still going to be able to count the number on one hand by the time we send the Prospect Handbook to press.
Ben Badler: Wow, I hadn't gone back and tracked the data like that from last year's BA Grades, but that sounds about right. They'll have more than two guys with 55s or better realistic ceiling grades, but I think you're still going to be able to count the number on one hand by the time we send the Prospect Handbook to press.
Re: Minor Matters
2310Why would anyone ask about Lars Anderson?
Paul (Cleveland): What is Lars Anderson's prospect status as of now? Did it improve any with the trade from Boston?
Ben Badler: I'd be pleasantly surprised if he contributed more than a cup of coffee in the big leagues.
Paul (Cleveland): What is Lars Anderson's prospect status as of now? Did it improve any with the trade from Boston?
Ben Badler: I'd be pleasantly surprised if he contributed more than a cup of coffee in the big leagues.